Wednesday, August 29, 2012

12. Blogs about the 80%

There is an obvious divide in youth circles that separate the old school from the new school. This doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with age. In fact, age really isn't a determining factor.

When I talk about old school vs. new school I am talking about the optimist versus the pessimist. I am definitely a youth group optimist. I believe that this is a generation of change, a generation that will make a definitive impact on the world and on the landscape of Christianity.

But maybe I am an optimist because I have only seen successful youth programs. The youth group I came through and got saved in now has well over 10 people in full-time Christian ministry and in keeping up with the old crew on Facebook we have about 80% who have STAYED strong in their faith.

The same is true of my current church. The foundation was set with a strong leadership program and a serviceable college program and we as well have about an 80% success rate. So when I hear other guys bashing youth groups and youth pastors, especially a fellow one, I am baffled.

This is what happened when I ran across a blog post from a guy named Andy Gill at www.youthmin.org where their slogan is "Everyday Youth Pastors being Everyday Extraordinary."

Here is the link .

This man apparently has had different experiences than I have, because even the title is hostile and inappropriate. My youth pastor didn't fail me, and I am not failing my kids. And I know of a multitude of imperfect men being empty vessels for the Lord as youth pastors who are also not failing. But I guess he is old school.

Here are some of the statements he made that are why "we are failing."

When the deepest books we read as youth pastors are “Crazy Love” by Francis Chan or “Sex God” by Rob Bell (which are written at 4th grade reading levels)

I have never read anywhere in the Bible where Jesus told His disciples that they had to have a reading level above 4th grade in order to follow Him. I believe whole-heartedly that "Leaders are readers" but this has nothing to do with our college freshman leaving the church.

Side note: My book "Can I get Baptized in Fruit Punch" was written at a 5th grade level, so you should be okay.

When the top blog hits are “5 Epic Youth Group Games”

This is so misguided because there is no way to know if a youth pastor was the reader of the blog. I have never been a game guy, but when we have a game, one of my volunteers or one of my students pick it out and they run it.

On a separate note, so what?

When we purchase our sermons off line instead of digging into the word ourselves and soaking in scripture and allowing God to speak through that.

This one is highly offensive. As the owner/operator of www.youth-sermons.com this is bad for business. :)

On a serious note, I have been running youth sermon sites for more than 5 years and here is my customer make-up.

1. Bi-vocational youth pastors: Some states have up to 50% of their pastors as bi-vocational. Try to find time to work a 40 hour a week job, be a father and husband, and a good youth pastor, and write quality sermons every week. Our company unapologetically assists these people.

2. Good shepherds: Some guys are great youth pastors because they know how to minister to their group, but they can't write a sermon to save their life. That is where we come in.

There is nothing wrong with getting inspiration from someone else's sermons. It is equivalent to reading a commentary on the text.

When 50% of youth group consists of “chubby bunny” and youtube videos

I am a double failure for this one. When we play "chubby bunny" we put it directly on youtube.


What do you think of Mr. Gill's assessments?

14 comments:

  1. I quoted you on my twitter account: "I know of a multitude of imperfect men being empty vessels for the Lord as youth pastors who are also not failing."

    BUT, one thing bugged me. I understand your point of providing resources for bi-vocational youth ministers, but you call it a business, company,serving customers. That kinda rubbed me wrong. I understand the whole publishing, book store, etc, but if you really want to HELP bi-vocational ministers then why make money off of it??

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  2. That is a fair question. The answer is this: I have a book that I believe in (Can I get Baptized in Fruit Punch?) that can, and has changed, a number of lives. I also have a publisher that would like me to sell those books or else he won't let me write another one.

    I am a full-time youth pastor who loves my youth and loves my family and so I decided against the speaking circuit to sell my book. So what I do is "sell" my sermons for $20 a year and "give" the book away for free.

    Basically, I am selling my book and giving my sermons away for free, and if our company (which isn't a dirty word by the way) continues to grow then I will write my second book and "give" that one away to my customers as well.

    This is a fair point you bring up, but even if this were not my end goal I am only charging $20 a year. Doug Fields charges $40 a series sometimes. I still have to pay to host the site and have to let my web man get some kick back too, because he works really hard.

    Thank you for the shout out and for reading my blog and for commenting.

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  3. Hey Man, Im the Co-Founder of Youthmin.org where Andy wrote that post. Wanted to give some feedback.

    What I love is we have a lot of people contribute to our site that say some extremely solid stuff that needs to be heard, and people will find one or two things in the post they disagree with and use it to write the whole thing off, I guess to avoid conviction about stuff, I dont know.

    From your comments and your post here, it seems like one of the things your hung up on is his quote about Crazy Love. Hear what he is saying behind that man. He is not saying dont read Crazy Love, he is saying that shouldnt be the deepest book you read as a Youth Pastor. Surely you would agree with that,heck, I think Francis Chan would agree with that.

    And yeah, we are adamantly against going on a site and buying curriculum. Cool to hear you run a few sites that sell it, we dont so much have a problem with those selling it or those who buy it. We are not against it for what it is, but we are against it because of much deeper issues than simply buying curriculum. Our main thought is that Youth Pastors too easily get comfortable and in a routine, and are too scared to move forward. To the part time youth Pastors, we think more should take a leap of Faith and Trust God and get into Full Time Ministry (we all know there is no such thing as part time ministry any ways). If you fully believe God called you to Youth Ministry, do something about it, dont be content where your at. And thats not a shot at Part Timers, we just want to push ourselves to do more. To the full time youth pastors, we get trained to teach the Bible and then do nothing with it. Hanging out with Students is great, Im where I am because my Youth Pastor hung out with me, but I also would have been a lot better off if my Youth Pastor had done more to invest in other adults to get them to invest in me.

    Excited to see what you do with the site, love finding new Youth Ministry blogs. I appreciate your rebuttal to Andy's post, my only real cause for concern is that you call him Old School.

    God Bless, Man! And again, because your commenting system isnt going to get this right, its Ben Read from Youthmin.org

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    1. Thanks for the comment.

      This answered a question I had as to whether or not the blog posts got approved before they were published.

      To start, calling him Old School was misinformed. I don't know the man. Oh, and I should have the left the Crazy Love comment as part of my inner-dialogue, but I was shocked that it was at the top of his must-read list.

      But Ben, hear my heart... you have the opportunity to uplift and help youth pastors and you are publishing this post, that basically calls us all failures. "Why we are failing as youth pastors" is not a good name for a blog post, because he doesn't know all youth pastors and while the ones he knows may be failing, the ones I know are not.

      How about a blog post entitled, "How to ensure we are not failing as youth pastors." How about instead of pointing out his perceived "problems" with youth pastors, he writes about the solutions.

      1. Leadership development
      2. Being a part of something bigger than yourself
      3. Transparent Leadership
      4. Deep Biblical lessons
      5. A successful college ministry

      These are the ways that we have "kept" the 80%.

      I am sure you know as well as I do that it is so hard to be a youth pastor, and when a fellow youth pastor calls me and all my friends failures... well, I have to say something because some people might actually believe him.

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    2. Posting here as well, haha.

      James, I can totally appreciate that. Where do you serve that all the Youth Pastors are killing it?

      We published this article because of the problem he is saying, which Chase is dead on with above: Youth Ministries are only as healthy as their Youth Pastor. And the fact of the matter, we've done a lot of polls and surveys on here, that you can find, that lead us to have these conversations, that lead us to know there are Youth Pastors who still struggle with Porn on a daily basis, that read their bible once a month, that haven't sat down and prayed for more than a meal in a while. We arent just blindly calling out every Youth Pastor, but we are saying Youth Pastors, we all need to do better.

      I totally get your heart, and appreciate the comments, man.

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  4. Also, we post a lot of stuff like that. We do believe Youth Ministry is broken, and the conversations need to be happening. The only conversations going on right now are about programming, but Youth Pastors are a much bigger problem. We love to deal with surface issues and symptoms of problems without getting messy.

    We want to get messy. Were going to post some stuff that is intentionally controversial to get gears grindng because we cant suffer through another generation of poor youth ministry. We hope people do believe what Andy wrote, but we know they wont, because no one likes getting told were failing at our jobs (and us Youth Pastors get that enough from elsewhere).

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  5. I don't know how we can say using someone's sermons is like reading a commentary. That seems lazy. If we are going to be get trained to preach the Bible and communicate to our target audience, why would we pay for sermons? I believe that God speaks to us as pastors and guides us to preach and lead in a way to speak specifically to our group where buying sermons can be like a russian roulette where we just pick something that sounds cool or can make us more relevant.

    As a part time guy, again if we can really any ministry is part time, I MAKE the time to write my own sermons so I can grow and constantly learn how to better communicate to my students. We make time for things that are important for us. I agree with Ben that if we feel called to ministry we should make the moves that God opens to fulfill our calling.

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    1. Fair enough,

      Hey great article on youthmin.org today.

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  6. Hey man, just a quick note to say hey. I also write at YouthMin.org, but I agreed with your assessment that "failures" was a bit harsh to be throwing around. I do not believe that Youth Ministry is broken. I ate lunch yesterday with 25 Youth Ministers from the Indy area, and I would be hard-pressed to say any of them are "failing." Most of them are nailing it, and lives are being changed.

    With that said, I was highly turned off by your approach. You were demeaning, sarcastic, and pretty rude as you sought to "dismantle" his premises. I read another article on your blog (about pranks), and this seems to be your mode of operation. You argued that pranks were not the main reason students are leaving ministries, which may be a true statement. But you did it by totally demeaning another Minister. By the way, I have had students leave the church and we've had legal issues because of pranks, so maybe there WAS some merit to his words.

    In short, try making your next post about lifting others up. You argued that is what Andy missed the mark on, yet you turned around and mocked him, which was kinda ironic. Try a little gentleness and respect. Who knows, maybe that's even Biblical...:)

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    1. Keith,
      Unfortunately you are right with your assessment.
      I am inspired by Jon Acuff's blog (as most of us are) and wanted to model my blog after his, but make it for YPs. But for some reason, even though he makes fun of people, and points out obvious flaws in the system, he never comes off as rude.
      I am a sarcastic person, and sarcasm doesn't always come out right in writing.
      I actually haven't even advertised this blog yet or linked to it or anything, except for yesterday on youthmin.org. I am still trying to find my voice, but I must still admit, that I was taken aback yesterday by that post. I felt like I was being tackled by someone on my own team.
      Bottom line though is that you are right, I have come off as rude and demeaning. As a penance I have been reading articles on youthmin.org that I agree with today and leaving positive responses.
      Funny thing I started the blog to lift people up... and I will.

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    2. Thanks for hearing my heart in my message, Jeremy. Glad you're checking out the YouthMin.org blog - there IS a lot of good stuff there. Like anything, you won't agree with everything, and neither do I.

      While you're at it, I'd love your thoughts on my most recent post at http://www.youthmin.org/2012/08/27/guard-your-heart . See what you think - keep up the Lord's work.

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    3. Read it and replied.
      I am sorry that you have known so many people who have gone through this. It is a very tough thing.

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  7. Great conversation guys, but I've gotta admit, after reading all the comments, I'm exhausted. No offense, but... Same team. Let's get back to work.

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  8. Whoops, I think I called you Jared in my last comment. Sorry about that James.

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